In today’s episode of The Arc, ECSP’s Angus Soderberg and Claire Doyle interview Wilson Center Fellow Dr. Renata Giannini about her work with women environmental defenders in the Amazon and their role at COP30 in Brazil. Select quotes from the interview are featured below.

On how she started her work on gender, climate security, and democracy in Latin America:

“About 15 years ago, I used to work on civil military relations. Because of that, I was taken to a project that was examining women in peace operations in Haiti. While I was doing the field work, some military women from one particular battalion, among the peacekeepers, came to me and asked for help because they were being violated and assaulted by their counterparts every day. I was completely taken aback because I was there researching those people and looking into how they were interacting with the civilian population. All of a sudden, I saw that violence was happening, and that really was what triggered [my interest in gender].

“Throughout the years, I’ve been gender mainstreaming in different topics. In 2019, when former President Bolsonaro started his term in Brazil, I was really taken aback once again. In Brazil, we’ve had a military dictatorship [historically]. Critics of the government were being treated as enemies of the state. What I liked the most to do, which was research and inform public policies, I was not able to do anymore. Channels of participation and civic engagement were completely curbed. So I started to really deal with that and monitor what was happening. And of course, in that context, we realized that one of the most affected areas was the environment. Deforestation was on the rise. Then, I wanted you to know: if the Amazon is burning, what’s the impact on women?”

On her research at the Wilson Center:

“One story I’m digging into is that of Alessandra Munduruku. She has been doing something that many of the defenders with whom I work are doing: they’re taking law classes. In this process, she learned that there were 23 applications from a mining company to explore her territory, which is not formally recognized as an indigenous territory. So she reached out to the media, to other indigenous populations, and to other partners. They wrote an open letter, and there was a huge outcry. For its reputation, this particular mining company, after some time, dropped the applications to explore that particular area. Another two also dropped after that. So she managed to protect the territory.” 

On the role gender plays in threats against environmental defenders:

“These women defenders are not only opposing these big projects, illegal economies, and so on, but they are also confronting gender norms. They are not staying at home, they are not staying quiet, and they are taking a stand. They are being politically active, and that’s not expected for women. [Women environmental defenders] are being murdered. They are being physically and sexually assaulted. They are being threatened. But they are also being defamed and silenced. Their leadership is made invisible by their male counterparts.”

On the solutions women defenders are proposing:

“The relationship between the state and the Amazon region needs to be thought of differently. Historically, as I’ve mentioned before, it has been a very exploratory relationship. The services that are provided by the state are either lacking or don’t have a much-needed intersectional approach.

“Second, it’s very hard to protect a very dense forest, which means that historically, it has also been prey to many illegal armed groups that terrorize the populations. They exploit the resources in a way that is really damaging, not only to the environment but also to the local population. So finding a state to be present, not only by providing adequate services but also by patrolling and protecting the area, is fundamental. 

“The third thing that I would say is related to these women-led initiatives. We’ve talked about how women have developed throughout history, like social roles and what they are expected to do. Because of that, the way that they see sustainable development is different, and it’s related to the roles they carry out, either because they are responsible for care, are often also responsible for food production, or are responsible for agriculture.”

On the link between environmental defense and climate mitigation:

“When I first started working with the defenders, the first thing that I noticed was that sometimes they didn’t recognize themselves as defenders. 

“When you talk about women protecting the environment, most of the time we associate them with adaptation, not necessarily mitigation. But, like the example I gave with Alessandra, when they stop mining exploitation, for instance, are they really just helping adaptation or are they really mitigating? It’s very hard to measure the effect that was not caused because they managed to halt a process. 

“What I’m trying to do is really uncover these more subsistence forms of development that take a stand more in harmony with the forest and with the biome. So I expect that I will be able to support enhancing and shining a light on this connection more clearly. I don’t think it’s just a matter of calling it climate action, it is climate action, and the fact that it’s not recognized as climate action is actually problematic.”

Looking ahead to COP30 in Brazil: 

“I think it’s very important in these conferences that it’s not only the states convening, deciding, and agreeing on several issues. It’s the fact that civil society is there, speaking, and is really trying to influence things, as it should. They often don’t think they are actually heard in these places. First, because it’s very hard to get to these places. Secondly, they don’t speak the language. 

“Now having COP actually in the Amazon will be really important. I’ve seen these women go all the way to Brasilia to protest and try to convince the government. I expect that not only women defenders, but, you know, the forest people will be there. I think that’s an amazing opportunity to really give voice to those who live there and open the space for active participation.”